RZA, the leader of the groundbreaking hip-hop collective Wu-Tang Clan, is a producer, rapper, writer, director, film scorer and actor. He is also a supporter of a meat-free lifestyle.
The 54-year-old creator gave up red meat in the mid-1990s, followed by chicken, fish and finally dairy and eggs. He’s since partnered with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, launched a vegan clothing line, and appeared in a surreal series of videos with fellow Wu-Tang members to promote White Castle’s meat-free Impossible Sliders.
In a recent interview, RZA, whose real name is Robert Fitzgerald Diggs, he talked about why he went vegan, the cultural ties between masculinity and meat, and how going meatless a few days a week would help the planet. Following are excerpts from that conversation, edited and condensed for clarity.
There is increased awareness these days about the environmental harms of eating meat, especially beef, along with health concerns. Why did you stop eating it?
For me it was consciousness. It was just the awareness of life itself. It became almost absurd, almost immoral. Why must the animal die for me to live? And then learning that our digestive system really has a hard time digesting red meat. As I became more aware it started to become less and less and then there is no point in eating a dead bird. To eat even a dead fish.
What about dairy?
Eggs and milk and cheese were the last things I left out of my diet. There were many reasons. And it was tough. The animal does not die. Animals are useful. Look, I’m a New Yorker. There’s nothing quite like a New York slice of pizza. But I realized how much mucus was building up in my own body. And the process of the milk we consume is so chemically infused. Even with pasteurization, there are still other elements of bacteria that enter our systems. Eggs was another tough one. But eggs are so porous and they beat them with chemicals. And there is mistreatment of these animals. So now you are consuming this trauma.
Some say it’s natural for humans to eat meat, that we ended up with bigger minds because of it.
We have been taught many myths. Back in my meat eating days, man, I could pull off 20 chicken wings. I could easily knock out three pieces of steak. At the end of the day, it definitely had an effect on my personality. I was definitely more aggressive and more aggressive without purpose. We have a country that had to build soldiers and factory workers. We had to make sure our population grew and became strong with what we had. I think meat is necessary in times of war. But now in our world, the necessity of hunting has been removed and reduced. I feel sophisticated, and the proof for me is my kids who grew up, most of their lives, never having red meat, no chicken, a couple hiked. They are healthy, very intelligent, very talented young people.
Why do you think there is a connection between meat and masculinity?
There was a generation that grew up with bodybuilding. When you’re a bodybuilder, you need a lot of protein. The assumption was that the strongest source of protein would come from the animal. It has spread through culture, it has spread through movies. We didn’t know in the 80s that there was another way.
Is the impact of climate change affecting the way you think about food?
Well, now, yes. The data shows that we destroy our own atmosphere only for the pleasure, not the need. Meat and beef and all those burgers are pleasure foods, and we prefer to destroy our environment for our pleasure, and it’s stupid of us. We must escape our tendency to fulfill our immediate pleasure and sacrifice our long-term gains.
A higher percentage of Black people identify as vegan compared to the rest of the population. Any thoughts why?
For the black community, health has been a struggle, from obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, all these different things that have been plaguing our community for a few years now. I think as the generations continued to grow up, you start to see us drop certain things.
How about someone who cares about the environment and is thinking about cutting down on meat, but who worries about what life is like without it?
Start with at least one day a week. Temper yourself. I didn’t go cold turkey. It took me years to come to veganism. I started by giving up red meat. Then chicken, then fish, then eggs and cheese. No need to rush into this. Let your physical body speak for you. But if you think about helping all of us, helping the world, at least two days a week knock out.